Curse

Age · Jun 21, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

We do it all the time over on Star Trek-Gamers just go and look what we said about Bethesda.We will bash criticize game developers and pubishers as we represent the game players not the industry.

kade · Jun 21, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Constructive criticism is fine, unfortunately that rarely occurs anymore. I feel sorry for A-Net and the Guru mods alike as this forum (Riverside in particular) has drowned completely in a sea of whiners and complainers.

Buster · Jun 21, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

You just can't please everyone, it is just that simple.

SerenitySilverstar · Jun 21, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Welcome to the internet.

Pretty much every single gaming forum on the history of the planet is like this.

So we have to follow along like good little sheep?

How about we make a change to our humanity? How about we start the revolution to make gamers respected? Let's make the Guild Wars community the one that turned the industry around, so that gamers were WORTH dealing with, instead of being reviled.

Let's try "discussing" and "constructive critique" without emotions blurring the line between fact and opinion.

darktyco · Jun 21, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

I think a lot of people (including myself) have had legitimate complaints regarding recent updates. Personally I have been voicing my negative opinions about some of the decisions ANet has made, but I haven't been bashing them in the slightest.

Kook~NBK~ · Jun 21, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Yes, I'm tired of all the whining that goes on in these forums. Every week someone starts a thread complaining about the upcoming weekend event. I've got an idea! A-Net should do away with weekend events all together. That way, everyone woud be whining about the same thing, but it would only last for a few weeks!

Constructive, open, respectful discussion is one thing and definitely is needed. But I see way too many posts that are nothing but a whine-fest.

And the notion that "The customer is always right" is just plain wrong. If you think it's not, my first question to you is "Which customer? The one that purchased 50 or 100 copies of GW to start up his own bot-farming/gold selling business? Or maybe it's the guy who thinks that every weekend event should revolve around him?" Or could it possibly be the one who uses an overpowered skill as a crutch who suddenly finds that it's been nerfed into reasonableness (is that even a word?) and crys "unfair?"

KANE OG · Jun 21, 2007, 11:58 PM // 23:58

As a Semi-Professional anet basher, I feel I need to chime in. I'll dis them any time they do something stupid, just like anyone on these forums will to me when I SAY something stupid.

The AoE nerf was smart. Loot-scaling is stupid. Kiting AI Monks is smart. Nerfing popular PvE/farming skills because of abuse in PvP is stupid. The spam bans thing is smart. Letting leechers get away with their crap is stupid. Extra storage was smart. Runes and insignia's not stacking is stupid.

Yeah, I say "good job" when I like something, but I bash the hell away when I don't. Don't like it? Don't read it.

KANE

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 22, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

I think I stated in my post that they were not perfect, but I think they got a lot of things right and when they do we should let them know. I think you can constructively give opinions and ideas without the rude, ignorant behavior of many people who post. It just seems like people have forgotten how to state thing politely, and if I were ANET I would be more apt to act on suggestions that were written in a civil way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KANE OG

Yeah, I say "good job" when I like something, but I bash the hell away when I don't. Don't like it? Don't read it.
KANE

Did you ever stop to think that is what ANET does to rude bashers.

Eldin · Jun 22, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I'm quite tired of it. Whilst many (actually, all) MMORPGs have bashing here and there, it feels like quite a bit of GWGuru is now a "BoohooGuru" forum. First it was because of Soul Reaping. Then Gaile claiming to be banning players for minor cursing and profanity. Then, umm, skill-related stuff. Now, umm, more things.

Personally, the best solution is for ANet to get on with GW:EN. We'll all be happy for about a week before we start criticizing things.

Gawa · Jun 22, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Yes, Im utterly fed up with the bad attitude that some people display here, basing ANet any and every chance they get.

Some of you don't get it even now.... bashing ANet is not good, for you, me, the forum, or anyone. It is in fact counter productive.

Does this mean we have to be happy about everything? Of course not. However, being unhappy, should not mean that can't be respectful or at least civil.

On the other hand: intelligent, mature, constructive critique, discussion, suggestion, debate...all of that is great and develops the game and ourselves.

That is what forums are for and what we need more of! Showing off our collective passion for the game and community. Sharing our talents and ideas.
Not bashing someone or other and which only starts a flamefest and ruins threads.

We have a privilege - direct access to the eyes and ears of the reps and devs of our favorite game!!! Think on that a moment..

Respect always is a two way thing. How about we try and show some respect to ANet and in turn show that we as a community can gain the respect of Anet.

Being known as a forum which is filled with quite a number of people who will bash ANet in any thread, and will always turn a negative light on something, does influence the future.

I am confident that if we were known as a community whose ideas were solid and not filled with stupid whinging/bashing/flaming posts... that our threads would be filled with much greater clarity and that the points in them would ring out clearer and truer to ANet.

I urge all of us to just give everyone a little more respect when posting please. Not just between ANet and us, but also between each other.

The pen is mightier than the sword...remember that and also remember that words can be cheap and quickly let loose, but they can be long remembered.

Don't make your own words cheap.
Let your words be remembered for something great.

<- read my wee avatar and think of the words next time you go to post ;P

KANE OG · Jun 22, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Did you ever stop to think that is what ANET does to rude bashers.

Yes I have. You know what happens? Five or six threads with the same complaints are started after one gets closed. THOSE are noticed.

A good example would be the recent spamming in all chat threads that burst on the scene (including one of mine). Amazingly, something was done about it. It's not perfect, but it's a start.

KANE

Mr.H.Mishima · Jun 22, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Welcome to the internet.

Pretty much every single gaming forum on the history of the planet is like this.

You must have not been active with Epic and UT, because that was simply not the case. Epic did a great thing with UT...they made a Server Admin mailing list, and interacted at the developer level with their customers. The admins knew what the major problems were, exploits, bugs, imbalances, etc. The admins knew what was expected in communicating with the devs, and we did that. We got what was needed to fix our problems, and if a request was denied, there was a reason given for it. We were given beta builds to roll out early to servers for testing, and then tweaks were made from there.

Now I realize that this structure is impossible with Anet and GW. But perhaps they could give a select group of players access to their beta builds, much more than they do. Those players could then, in turn, discuss the positives and negatives of the changes and how they made them work in beta build. This would give people time to prepare for the changes, rather than "Here's what we're doing in three days" or "here's today's update", both of which, simply don't work. You get a reactionary set of posts, endless bashing, and upset players and in turn, upset devs.

You really cannot take suggestions from the general population. Everybody thinks they are entitled to their suggestion being implemented simply because they think it's a good idea. People think that their suggestions are great just because 17 people on a forum agree with it. They fail to see the big picture in almost every case.

There has to be a change for this game to survive, and something like this would go a LONG way to improving tihings in GW.

ryanryanryan0310 · Jun 22, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Hey if we didn't bash A-net then these forums would be boring. If we were all peace & love the forums would suck and eveyone would leave.

PS:
Everyone has there own Opinion.

Abarra · Jun 22, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Excuse me.

Yes I'm fed up with all the anet bashing, but not because it goes on but because anet merit it. I'm fed up with all the nerfs, esp loot scaling, fed up of the way a net chooses to address problems by wedging square shapes into round holes to make it fit, and so are many others.

the OP didn't stop to consider that there are a lot of anet bashing threads because there are a lot of unhappy customers. There are more threads now than I have ever seen on guru and it's not because we've been infested by whiney people it is the dissatisfaction at guild wars.

with eyes of the north and GW 2 on the horizon anet should be trying to mend fences with customers not pushing them further and further away. They seem to think 'If we make it they will buy' forgetting that if people move onto another product they may never come back.

as for constructive critisism anet never listens to any critisism and continues to anger the gaming community. If they carry on expect there to be many more anet bashing posts as more and more people become disatisfied.

Don't get me wrong I think GW was a great game I've been playing on and off for nearly 2 years. But I think it's a bit broken now and a lot of the fun has gone. Shame... Oh well I wish them luck and hope they manage to get the half of the customer base they have upset back onside.

But back to topic, lots of complaints = lots of unhappy customers.

SerenitySilverstar · Jun 22, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

No, the boards are rife with bashing at the moment, because human beings are prone to hysteria and moving in packs.

fog_of_redoubt · Jun 22, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I think I stated in my post that they were not perfect, but I think they got a lot of things right and when they do we should let them know.

I thought they had a lot right at Beta... And I let them know by buying their product. They have done good and bad over the last 2 years. The last few months they have been horrendous. I will let them know that by not buying GW:EN or GW2

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 22, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I constantly see people on this forum say ANET can do no right and are always messing things up. While they are not perfect I think they do a very good job and deserve credit for the good things they do. I just would like to see how may more people agree with my feelings, please let me know. I know that I am about to get flamed and called a Fanboy, but in all reality what is wrong with saying good things about a game you enjoy.

I've been accused of being a fanboy, and then I'm accused of being a whiner.

I must be doing *something* right.

For me, the game was great fun until the end of last year; the introduction of DoA and "hard" mode began what I see as a steady slide away from being casual and PvE friendly. Philosophically, ANet has charted a course I'm not happy with -- so I've quit playing.

Honestly, there are other games that can be very fun, and most of the WoW-bashing in these forums is from real fanboys who can't admit that maybe ANet has made some bad decisions of late.

I just spent a couple hours in LOTRO with my wife. Great fun.

Why am I here? Because I care enough about my time investment in GW that I want to see it improve and gain back the many people who ahve left. However, I'm not seeing much hope, so depending on how the game goes in the next few days, I will probably leave the forums as well.

Leaving silently doesn't help GW at all. Believe it or not, some of us criticize ANet because we know they care, and we know they've listened in the past, and we have VALID concerns about the game.

If you're thrilled with GW, then I'm glad you're happy. Me? I'm following my friends and family to other games...

Zinger314 · Jun 22, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01

It's a sweet irony. The pessimism which I've been flamed relentlessly for is now commonplace among these forums.

Regardless, this topic doesn't make a good distinction between ArenaNet bashing and ArenaNet critisizing. Bashing is baseless. Valid criticisms, such as those critising Andrew Patrick's post in that Community Relations, are helpful.

zerohaste · Jun 22, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Yes and no.

I have no problem with people voicing their opinion on a change they didn't like, but it's the personal attacks against Anet (calling them idiots or... worse things I've seen) that get to me. There is simply no reason for it and I know that there isn't a single person on here who would like being attacked personally while they work.

Sir Green Aluminum · Jun 22, 2007, 06:19 AM // 06:19

If you don't complain how do you expect them to know something's wrong? It's not like we're bashing them because the way they looked in magazine interviews or just for no reason.